MyPUAJourney Forum

Great responses Rhetoric! You really seem to have a good handle on Internet game.

@ Contact: I'm not the biggest "internet game" guy, but one thing you asked, I think I can toss some light onto:

"Just getting a minor point out of the way- I don't quite understand how omitting the return IOI is appropriate--in principle, desirable behaviors should be encouraged -so if she's enthusiastic or hooked, she should be rewarded to elicit more of the same going forward. That's just the way I understand it; I'm sure you have valid reasons."

Yes, you're right, you want to reward desirable behaviors, but never too early into the interaction, it can make you come off needy/clingy - as Rhetoric pointed out. A lot of girls will use false IOI's as shit tests - this is a lot harder for them to pull of face to face, as you can read their body language, tonality etc to see if she's serious or not. Online however, you lose all of that. I can call you a complete fag here for example, and be completely joking, but you can't tell, because all you have are my words (for the record, I don't think you're gay! lol!). Therefore, you can't always believe a girls written IOI's - especially at the outset. That's what makes rhetoric's advice so solid.

Be a challenge, but be a challenge that is fun for her and you should be able to maintain the conversation and amp the vibe until you feel it's appropriate to go for a phone number and then from the phone to a face to face meeting.

Yo Contact:

i was planning on answering your other questions yesterday, but i was quite busy. i'll get to your question soon though. i never really set out to use facebook to game girls much since it really isn't (wasn't) my thing, but recently i've been trying to get something going with 4 different ones on facebook (which is going quite well) as well as trying to maintain momentum with the two girls i see in real life. i think i may have to let the bartender girl go. she's always working on the nights i go out, and i'm not about to go to a bar just to visit her at work - that's lame. i haven't actually seen her in about 5 days. i'll call and if we can't plan something in the next two days... imma movin' on.

either way, on top of answering your questions, i'll post some examples from my actual conversations that demonstrate the following:

a girl added me on FB. i challenged her in my first message and kept all messages short. i rarely include more than maybe 3 things from my rubric. i exclude many returning IOIs

i show how i use the same questions for most girls (i'll list some of my favorites) as well as how i lead up to the question so it appears more natural and less interview style

i'll show a good example of where it was quite tempting to give a drawn out returning IOI, but instead i decided to just move forward in the conversation. the reason why it was tempting to return an IOI was because she showed a lot of initiative when she recognized me in the parking lot at a club near campus and approached me. in the message she sent the next night she mentions how she wasn't looking her best because she wasn't planning on going. many people would be tempted to say how she looked great and she shouldn't worry, etc....but that slows things down. i also decided to keep her hanging for a couple days. perhaps make her think i wasn't satisfied with the girl i met in person. some guys try to be nice by telling a girl her not to worry how she looked (she looked hot as hell btw. she wasn't all fancied up like most girls, but was still hot) but an even better compliment imo, if she's worried about how she looked, is to simply ignore it like it doesn't even bother you. this also doesn't slow things down.


two last things to note...i made up roughly 85% of the rules i follow for internet game. i couldn't find any good sources and didn't feel like reading the ones i did find, so i made up my own rules. don't think my rules are community standards. these are just my take on the matter. feel free to question or ignore any of them. lastly, i noticed that Jack has posted a new video on youtube (and his site mypuajourney.com) that talks about internet game. i've yet to watch it, but it's gonna be a multi part video. should be worth checking out. i'd like to see how his ideas compare to mine.

That's a feather in your cap IMO that you came up with it mostly all on your own - I've been looking into some supposedly credible sources and they pretty much expound the same principles, almost exactly to what you've been saying. Looking forward to hearing more.

When it comes to running game, being congruent with yourself the entire time is always important. You don’t want to be some fascinating guy online and then some boring guy in person. Same thing goes with the websites you run game on. I only use facebook, so the game I run on it has to be somewhat congruent with the site, at least at first. What I mean is this… Facebook is a site for keeping in touch with friends, family, coworkers, etc. It’s not a site for dating and meeting random people – at least not primarily. That’s not even its secondary or tertiary purpose. Having said this, it’s best for me to come across as just some fun social guy who couldn’t care less about a girl’s response or lack there of. On a dating site, you can push the envelope a little more, but you still want to come across as disinterested, and uncaring in terms of her response. Like jack also mentions in his latest video, you don’t want to jump through any hoops and you want to maintain your frame from the start at all times.

I think the biggest draw back to your message about roses is that it not only got a little sappy, slowed things down, and showed a little too much interest, but you also kinda entered her frame a little. Instead of just giving a returning IOI, you made her subject the focus of your message.

Now onto the questions at hand…

When I first used facebook to game girls before I knew about the community, I just kept messages short and treated them like real conversation. They weren’t fancy messages and most of the girls were ones I already met in person, so they already had some interest in me - making it easier on my part. I got pretty quick at responding to them because I would just improvise the whole message as I typed, like in do in most conversations. This is really the best way to get decent at responding to messages. I recommend just trying out a few random messages with girls you don’t care about. Don’t make them fancy; just make them short, challenging, and interesting. Then when and if they do respond back, just read their response and start typing. Once you’ve typed something out, you can go back and read it to make sure it’s somewhat solid prior to sending it.

Prior to starting this thread I hadn’t done any online game in three years which means this is the first time I’ve done any since I’ve gotten involved in this community. The first three messages I posted on here that involve the marriage and wallaby stuff took me about 20 minutes each to finish completely. I took a good while coming up with responses because I tried to include so much PUA spice into every sentence. Then I came up with that rubric/outline and now I can type them out in just a few minutes (about 3 minutes for short ones and about 5-6 for longer ones). Try not to over complicate things. It’s tempting to read a girl’s response and try to decipher every word of it. That’s a dumb idea though, because most girls spend less than 3 minutes responding to your message. You aren’t going to see a girl sit there and try to think of some cleaver, witty message that will keep you guessing. So if something is confusing or questionable, it’s more than likely just a poorly written sentence on her part.

Being able to think on your feet is important in all aspects of life including game and online game. It not only makes things faster and easier for you, but it helps keep you out of your own head space which will make things sound more natural and congruent to who you are. This is why when it comes to real life game, i try to improvise a good 90% of the conversation, only memorizing a few C&F responses and what not. With online game, i try to only reuse qualifying questions and hook points like that dumb wallaby question.

With the outline I showed above, you don’t have to follow every point of it. Also, several sections overlap each other. I’ll post some examples soon that show how I ignore most points on the outline in order to keep things progressing forward and to keep the message short. I have a bad habit of typing A LOT. So it’s best to skip a few points on the outline rather than writing a novel. I have sent some long messages to girls but not until after they have begun to lengthen their messages too. Even so, I keep things progressing and stay in my own frame.

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You’re right; it does suck to lose a girl using a new method when you know you could have gotten far better results with some of your old methods. I’ve had this happen to me a couple times in real life when I started making my switch from scripted opinion openers to more natural openers. However, now I feel far more comfortable and get better results going more natural than using opinion openers. You have to lose some to win some. You’ll be better off in the end.

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As far as DHV stories go, I rarely every use those ever. Not even in real life. My value bits are short and simple. For instance I’ll mention a past girlfriend or I’ll say something that demonstrates how I understand women better than the average guy. I may mention an activity in passing that’s attractive. Just remember that the four basic DHV spikes that Mystery outlined are: willingness to emote, leader of men, protector of loved ones, and preselected by women. Also know some basic qualities girls find attractive and if they are congruent to you, you can mention them in passing, but stories are unnecessary. However, if you’re good at making short stories then do so, especially if they are true. If you’re uncertain about a story you’re thinking about sharing, post on these forums somewhere. There are plenty of folks on here who can give solid critiques on it.

Qualifying questions are definitely important though. I’ll post a list either tonight or tomorrow of some of my favorites. I’ll also mention how I lead up to them. That’s important because you don’t want to make it sound scripted and interview style. Even if your question is unique, if you don’t lead up to well, it sounds forced and preplanned. For example, I wouldn't say:

“We should hang out next time I’m in the area. There’s a great place over on the corner that serves some of the best tea you’ll ever taste. You’ve gotta try it. If the world were full of clones of you, what would it be like?”

That would just be stupid. I like that question, but nothing lead up to it. Instead, I’ll put something like:

“Haha. I like your sense of humor, but at the same time it makes me a little upset. I just don’t think the two of us could ever get along. I think we may be too similar. I mean… if the world were full of clones of you, what would it be like?”

I just made both of those up just now using a question I’ve used before, so they aren’t fantastic. However, I think it gets my point across. The second one clearly leads up to the question far more naturally even if it’s not perfect.

More on this later though.

the following is a list of very rough, unpolished qualifying questions you can use when you can't think of anything better. they range from levels 1 to 3. the more IOIs she gives and the more investment she has into the conversation, the higher level question you can use. so basically this means you wouldn't want to use a level 3 right off the bat. she's not gonna qualify herself to a guy straight away - at least they won't a good 19 out of 20 times (i made that statistic up).

Level 1 qualifying questions:
Are you adventurous?
What’s your most awesome superpower?
Do your friends have a nickname for you…or should I just keep calling you [nickname you gave her].

Level 2:
What are your three best qualities?
What was the last adventurous thing you did?
What would your best friends say they love most about you?
If you could pick any year out of your life to live through again but couldn’t change anything, which year would you choose?
When you were younger, what did you want to be when you grew up? ...and don’t say [something funny]!

Level 3:
What would you say are your three best qualities? ...and don’t say [something funny]!
What do you have going for you other than your looks?
What would make me want to know you better?
If the entire world were all clones of you, what would the world be like?
If you could live one day of your life over and over again for as long as you wanted, which day would you pick?

now, like i mentioned in the last post, you want to lead up to your questions somewhat naturally. so here are just a few key words you can use to make it flow better. i'll be posting some more of my examples later that will demonstrate how i like to word things.

Qualification question intro examples:
So I’m curious…what do you have going for you other than your looks?
Alright I have to know…what’s your number one superpower?
You’ve piqued my curiosity, so tell me…what do you think your best friends would say they love most about you?
We would never get along. I mean…if the entire world were all clones of you what would it be like?
I have an intuition about you, but first…if you could pick….

once again, this is all just my take on internet game. i'm a big fan of over complicating things, but in reality, things don't have to be so complicated. especially on a dating site where this sort of thing is natural. on facebook, i try not to give off any vibe other than fun and social until i know things are heading in a good direction. even then, i personally prefer to leave the seduction aspects to real life and just use my fun social vibe spiced with PUA stuff like C&F banter, knowledge about attraction and women, etc. to secure a meet up. i never use sexual language of any sort online (and only sparingly in real life) because i don't view it to be congruent with facebook itself.